LEM Swap

LEM Swap is Low End Mac’s Google Group for buying and selling Mac OS computers and related goods. We also have Facebook LEM Swap groups for Mac and iOS users in Canada and the UK.

iPhones and iPods are considered related goods, but iPod and iPhone accessories are not. This is a Mac swap list, not an iPhone or iPod one. PCs are expressly forbidden even if they are running OS X, as are most *nix boxen except for NeXT hardware. Palms and PDAs are acceptable as long as they can be used with Macs. Vintage Apple hardware (Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, and Newton) is allowed.

Join LEM Swap
Email:
Visit this group

The rule of thumb for “related goods” is that they require the use of a computer to be fully functional – so a printer or webcam would qualify, while a digital camera or camcorder would not, as these are fully functional even if they’re never tied to a computer.

In October 2006, we launched a separate  PC Swap group for buying, selling, and trading x86 PCs.

The rule of thumb for “related goods” is that they require the use of a computer to be fully functional – so a printer or webcam would qualify, while a digital camera or camcorder would not, as these are fully functional even if they’re never tied to a computer.

LEM Swap is not a discussion group.

We recommend Apple II/III, Lisa, and Newton owners use Apple2list, LisaList, and NewtonList, respectively, when listing Apple II/III, Lisa, and Newton items for sale. Those in Canada, the UK, and down under may prefer to post their items to the Mac Canada, Mac UK, or Outback Mac groups.

Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the group.

How can I subscribe to LEM Swap?

There are several ways to read messages from LEM Swap:

  • Individual messages
  • Abridged messages, a daily summary of messages
  • Digest mode, a daily collection of full messages
  • No email
  • Online

You can subscribe via email or online. Note that digest mode does not include the email addresses of posters to protect their privacy and to help prevent spam. If you want to be able to reply via email, you must use “email” (individual message) mode. The other option is to receive the digest and then log in to http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap, locate the message, and use the “reply to author” link.

Never reply to the group. LEM Swap is not a discussion list.

To subscribe via email, send an email to lemswap+subscribe@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to lemswap+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. You must register online if you wish to set your subscription to digest mode, abridged messages, or no email.

To subscribe online, go to http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap and click on Join this group. You do not need a Google/Gmail account to participate. If you don’t have a Gmail address or wish to use another address, click on the Sign up now link.

Although you will begin receiving messages from the group right away, Google Groups will not accept an email posting until you confirm your email address. Also, in an attempt to keep spammers out, the first messages from new members will be checked by a group manager before they are posted.

You will receive a confirmation email from Google Groups at your subscribed address. You must click on the link in this message to verify your email address. That will generate a second email from Google Groups, and it’s only after responding to the second message that you’ll be able to post to the group. Watch out – one or both of these may be marked as junk mail by your spam filter.

Use http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap to change your subscription mode, your subscribed address, or remove yourself from the group.

If you use an RSS reader, you can subscribe to the group’s RSS feed at http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml

To help prevent spammers from using the to the entire group, and to keep others
from subscribing your address without your approval, you will
receive an email from the Google Groups server asking you to confirm your
subscription. Simply reply as instructed and your
subscription will be active.

Please report any subscription problems to the group owner at

.

Online Subscription Management

Go to http://groups.google.com/ and select
“Sign in”. Enter your subscribed email address and password. You may
also want to check “Stay signed in”.

Google Groups will display a list of all groups that this email
address is subscribed to. Click on “Manage my memberships” – this is
where you can change your nickname, your subscribed email address, and
your subscription type (how you receive messages from the group).

What about anti-spam services?

We take whatever steps we can to keep spam off our lists, but
short of moderating every message on every to the entire group, we can’t prevent
some from occasionally reaching the list. Whatever filtering you do
with your email software and your email service is up to you.

That said, we take a dim view of anti-spam services such as
Spam Arrest and Cashette that require the sender of
a message to respond to a message from the anti-spam service (a
“challenge and response” system) before allowing the recipient to
receive the posting. Such a service inconveniences anyone who posts
to the group and is unnecessary.

These are all closed lists, so there should be virtually no
spam. Only those who have requested a subscription and confirmed
their subscription are allowed to post. Please don’t inconvenience
our members by asking them to jump through hoops to keep your
mailbox spam free.

Any subscriber using this kind of anti-spam service for group
messages will receive one warning and be temporarily blocked from
posting to the list. If the situation is not resolved quickly, the
subscriber will be banned. The burden should be on the spammers,
not innocent group members.

Note that this applies specifically to messages sent to the group,
not to individual correspondence with group members.

How can I distinguish messages from LEM Swap from all the other email I get?

Messages from this group will include “lemswap” in their footer, and messages from the Swap Feedback group (see below) will include “swap-feedback” in their footer.

How should items be listed?

The subject line should make it clear whether you want to buy, sell, swap, or give away something – and what it is you’re offering or looking for. Please begin for sale subject lines with FS, want to buy with WTB, trades with SWAP, and use FREE for things you’re giving away. Follow this by a subject line that make it pretty clear what kind of thing(s) the posting is about.

Who oversees the LEM Swap List?

Dan Knight of Low End Mac manages LEM Swap, which was begun on September 3, 2000. Beverly Woods, Kyle Hansen, Derek Morton, Tim Gochnour, and Len Gerstel are the group “nannies” (group managers).

How does Google Groups work?

Anyone who has access to Internet email may subscribe to LEM Swap List using the subscription address lemswap+subscribe@googlegroups.com to join the group. Members will receive a copy of every message others have sent to the posting address, lemswap@googlegroups.com. If you wish to reply to the group or post a new message to the group, send email to lemswap@googlegroups.com.

This group is set up so selecting “Reply” in your emailer will send a message to the original sender – this is the opposite of our other lists. If you wish to respond to the group, be sure to address your message to lemswap@googlegroups.com – but remember that this is not a discussion group. There should be no need to copy messages to both the author and the group, since the author is a member of the group.

How do I reply to the sender instead of to the group when using the Google Groups interface?

There are two ways to do this. If you select “Reply with quote”, you will have the option of selecting the group or the original poster as the recipient. The second option is to click on “show options” below the date of the message. Here you will see “Reply to author” as one of your options.

How do I know if it’s okay to post an item on the to the entire group.?

As it says at the top of the page, “LEM Swap is Low End Mac’s Google Group for buying and selling Mac OS computers and related goods. iPhones and iPods are considered related goods, but iPod and iPhone accessories are not. This is a Mac swap list, not an iPhone or iPod one. PCs are expressly forbidden even if they are running OS X, as are most *nix boxen except for NeXT hardware. Palms and PDAs are acceptable as long as they can be used with Macs. Vintage Apple hardware (Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, and Newton) is allowed.”

Computers designed to run the Mac OS, printers and modems that work with Macs, networking equipment (hubs, cable or DSL modems, base stations, etc.), mice and keyboards, Mac-compatible webcams, flash drives, and hard drives are just some of the things that fit into the “Mac and Mac-related” category.

Windows PCs and software, cell phones, consumer electronics, and digital cameras are examples of things that do not qualify as Mac-related goods. (Rule of thumb: If it works just fine without a computer, like a digital camera or cell phone, it’s not a peripheral and thus is not allowed. If it’s dependent on a computer, such as a printer or synching your PDA, it’s a peripheral and is allowed.)

Even though Intel-based Macs can run Windows, because of licensing issues (OEM vs. retail copies, Genuine Advantage problems, limits on how many times or on how many machines it can be installed, and licenses that prohibit use of some versions in a virtualized environment), we do not allow the sale of Windows.

What rules do you have about posting items for sale?

  • Sellers and those looking for items should always mention their geographic location (city and state/province/country) and postal code so buyers know where items will be shipped from or to – or where you are if items are for local pickup only.
  • This is not a dealer list. LEM Swap List exists for private sale and purchase of goods. Any dealer attempting to sell anything besides personal merchandise on the list will be banned.
  • Don’t list items you’re auctioning on eBay or elsewhere. This group is for private buying and selling, not for promoting auctions.
  • You must post an asking price. This is not an auction site, and we don’t allow “best offer” postings. If you think your price may be a bit high, “or best offer” (OBO) is allowed. Even when that’s not stated, potential buyers should feel free to contact the seller indicating their interest if the item doesn’t sell at the asking price.
  • When selling a computer, it should include an installed version of the Mac OS unless otherwise stated. If the installed OS is not the one that originally shipped with that computer or a free update to that version, the original disks for the version installed should accompany the computer.
  • Likewise, bundled software (such as AppleWorks) that originally came with the computer should also be installed and, when possible, original install disks included as well.
  • Trafficking in wares and pirated software is illegal, violates the rules of the group, and disrespects the buyer. Only original copies of software may be sold on this list. This also applies to software “left on” hard drives or installed on computers. Original software disks (not copies) must be included with the sale, along with manuals, serial numbers, etc.
  • Likewise, trafficking in non-Apple Intel hardware with any version of Mac OS X installed is prohibited, as OS X is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. While Apple doesn’t prevent you from hacking OS X onto a PC for your own use, selling such a computer, even if not for profit, is not legal.
  • We allow a maximum of 4 postings per day from any member of the group.
  • Once you have posted an item for sale, please wait one week before reposting it to the group.
  • If you have multiple related items for sale, please list them in a single posting rather than a whole bunch of separate ones.
  • Unless you are getting a lot of replies expressing interest in something you’ve already sold, please don’t post “I sold it” messages to the group.

When buying and selling

  • Please put a blank line between paragraphs and between items in your posting.
  • All correspondence regarding services or products should be conducted privately, not on the list.
  • Sellers are asked to list their eBay and HeatWare IDs when posting items for sale. Those posting items for sale or seeking items must include name (first and last) and location (city, state or province, country if outside US, and postal code).
  • Buyers and sellers are required to provide full contact information to each other privately. This includes full mailing address and phone number.
  • You may want to check feedback on HeatWare http://heatware.elitehardware.com, eBay http://www.ebay.com, and the Mac Rap Sheet http://mac-rapsheet.blogspot.com before concluding a transaction.
  • Please join the Swap Feedback group and post your feedback on completed transactions there. Do not post feedback here – this is not a discussion list.
  • LEM-Swap has no mechanism for resolving disputes. We suggest SquareTrade http://www.squaretrade.com for dispute resolution.
  • Neither the publisher nor the group managers makes any claim regarding services or products offered by members of the group.

Tracking and Insurance

To protect the buyer, all sales over $100 in value (US, or equivalent in local currency) must be shipped insured if this is at all possible.

Whenever possible, sales over US$25 (or equivalent) should be shipped with tracking numbers so both the buyer and seller can track the shipment.

The Swap Feedback List

We have created a separate group specifically for feedback on Swap List transactions. We ask that you provide feedback – positive or negative – on each transaction. This will help others identify buyers and sellers who do not operate in good faith. As with LEM Swap, this is an unmoderated closed group.

Subscribe to Swap Feedback
Email:
Visit this group

You can join the Swap Feedback group online at http://groups.google.com/group/swap-feedback or emailing swap-feedback+subscribe@googlegroups.com. This is a separate group that requires a separate subscription. It works like the Swap List except that replies go to the group, not the original poster.

If you use an RSS reader, you can subscribe to the group’s RSS feed at http://groups.google.com/group/swap-feedback/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml

What is netiquette?

There are informal rules of the Internet (“netiquette”) to help people use proper etiquette when communicating online. For more on group netiquette, click here.

Because LEM Swap is for buying and selling, do not use it to promote sales through auction sites.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Who is in the group?

That would be telling.

Because Google Groups requires an email address but not a name, I may not have names of all members of the group. We currently have over over 2,600 members, and people don’t need to join the group to read postings online.

How can I get a copy of the email addresses for members?

You can’t. To communicate with the group, send messages to the posting address lemswap@googlegroups.com. We have deliberately blocked access to the subscriber list to prevent addresses from being harvested by spammers.

What topics may be discussed?

LEM-Swap is not a discussion list; it is a forum for buying and selling. Except in rare cases, your reply should be directed to the person making a posting to the group, not to the group itself.

LEM Swap List is mostly an unmoderated closed group. Unmoderated means messages are sent to the group without prior knowledge of the group owner or managers; closed means only members may post. The group is closed to help fight spam, and first postings from new members must be reviewed and approved by a group manager before they are sent to the group, a step made necessary by spammers.

Group managers are authorized to remove the following types of messages from the group archive: spam, test messages, unsubscribe postings, and items prohibited from the list. Content of each message is the responsibility of the person posting it.

Because the group is closed, you will only be able to post from a subscribed address.

What topics may not be discussed?

The list is short: LEM Swap is not a discussion group, so discussion is prohibited unless the List Mom initiates it.

What tone is expected in the discussion and who will facilitate this?

This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of “dumb” questions, and please don’t bait or snipe at each other.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Please report any major breach of netiquette to the list managers.

Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to the group?

Yes, it’s available at http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap.

What other Internet resources are available for buying and selling Macs?

There are several auction sites and used Mac dealers.

I subscribed, but get no messages. What’s up?

Google Groups can be set so that “no email” is the default
option, and all of our lists were inadvertently set that way. We
have since set them so subscribers will receive individual emails
as the default. My apologies.

It’s possible (but not easy) to subscribe with an incorrect
email address. The list server checks all bounced messages to
determine why they bounced. If the address is invalid, it is
removed from the subscriber list. If the problem is temporary, like
a full mailbox, the server temporarily suspends your subscription.
If this results in still more bounces, the server will eventually
remove the address.

If you are subscribing from a free email account, note that some
of these services are very busy and messages may bounce. This can
even happen with commercial services, and Apple’s .mac seems to
experience this frequently. If this persists, it could lead to your
name being removed the list. We recommend you to use an ISP account
for the list instead of a free email service.

We take a hard line against unsolicited commercial email. To
prevent spam, the list is closed and certain domains are blocked by
the mail server and the list server.

I sent a reply to the list, but I never received a copy.

Google Groups sometimes makes the assumption that you know what you’ve
posted, so you don’t need to receive a copy; there’s no way we
can change that if it happens. However, your posting will show up online
and you will see it if you receive the list in digest form.

I subscribed, but I can’t post.

Google Groups requires you to confirm and verify your
subscription before you can post. And, like most email lists, their
software may not me@recognize mail.domain.com and me@domain.com as
being the same. Make sure the From: and Reply-to: address in your
email client match the address you used to join the list.

I have had reports of people who are subscribed and unable to
post. If this happens to you, please forward your message to

so we can investigate. We’re
still learning how Google Groups works, and Google Groups remains
in beta.

I sent a message, but it never appeared. Why?

There are several possible reasons a posting can bounce.

  • You may not have confirmed your subscription yet. Until you do
    so, you are not officially on the list and thus unable to
    post.
  • Your return address may not match the address you subscribed
    from (for instance, the server sees “yourname@mail.maclaunch.com”
    and “yourname@maclaunch.com” as different addresses). The list
    server uses your return (reply to) address to confirm that you are
    subscribed to the list and allowed to post.
  • You may have sent email which contains an attachment, styled
    text, or something other than plain text.
  • You may have inadvertently sent your message to the wrong
    address. Never use the “listname-requests” address.
  • Your mail server may have appended something to your email
    which changes your return address so that it no longer matches the
    subscribed address. I’ve only seen that with Yahoo mail so
    far.

Do you have any policies about selling products or services on
the list?

I’ve learned that some of the experts on any list gain their
expertise professionally. For instance, I was the information
systems manager for an 85 Mac network. For those who make a living
selling equipment or services, we have the following
guidelines.

  1. List members may mention the availability of commercial
    services or products on the list, but no prices. (Individuals may
    list personal equipment with prices.)
  2. All correspondence regarding services or products should be
    conducted privately, not on the list.
  3. Neither the publisher nor the list mom makes any claim
    regarding services or products offered by members of the list.

To simplify things, we set up the Low End
Mac Swap List
as a place for list members to buy, sell, and
trade Mac-related goods.

For the most part, items for sale should be listed on the Swap
List, which has over 2,200 subscriptions. We make exceptions for the
international lists (Australia, Canada, UK), the non-Mac lists
(Apple II, Lisa, Newton), and items that would only be of interest
to members of a specific list. Keep in mind that the swap list is
generally the best place to list items for sale, since it has more
subscribers than any of the other lists.

That said, the swap list is a very busy list, and we don’t think
anyone should have to subscribe just so they can sell a personal
item or system, so we do allow posting of items for sale on all
lists – but only when they are specifically related to that list.
That means no posting Quadras for sale on the iMac list, for
instance.

To avoid this list turning into a swapfest, we restrict
subscribers to one such postings per calendar year

We discourage posting links to your eBay and other
online auctions, and such postings are explicitly forbidden
on the swap list. We also discourage links to other items available
through online auctions unless they are unusual and of special
interest to that list, such as the Piña tomes covering
vintage Macs.

Do you block any specific domains?

We are firmly committed to the free exchange of information on
our lists. Some mail servers censor incoming email – orvis.com in
particular. We don’t take preemptive action against subscribers
using such mail servers, but we do reserve the right to
unceremoniously unsubscribe them without advance notice when their
content filters “quarantine” list messages.

If you receive a “quarantine” message, please forward it to
the
so we can deal with it.
Thanks!

Dan Knight,

Keywords: #lemswap

Short link: http://goo.gl/HwIo2q

searchword: lemswap

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.