LEM Swap

LEM Swap is Low End Mac’s Google Group for buying and selling Mac OS computers and related goods.

iPhones and iPods are considered related goods, but iPod and iPhone accessories are not. This is a Mac swap list, not an iPhone or iPod one. PCs are expressly forbidden even if they are running OS X, as are most *nix boxen except for NeXT hardware. Palms and PDAs are acceptable as long as they can be used with Macs. Vintage Apple hardware (Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, and Newton) is allowed.

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The rule of thumb for “related goods” is that they require the use of a computer to be fully functional – so a printer or webcam would qualify, while a digital camera or camcorder would not, as these are fully functional even if they’re never tied to a computer.

In October 2006, we launched a separate  PC Swap group for buying, selling, and trading x86 PCs.

The rule of thumb for “related goods” is that they require the use of a computer to be fully functional – so a printer or webcam would qualify, while a digital camera or camcorder would not, as these are fully functional even if they’re never tied to a computer.

LEM Swap is not a discussion group.

We recommend Apple II/III, Lisa, and Newton owners use Apple2list, LisaList, and NewtonList, respectively, when listing Apple II/III, Lisa, and Newton items for sale. Those in Canada, the UK, and down under may prefer to post their items to the Mac Canada, Mac UK, or Outback Mac groups.

Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the group.

How can I subscribe to LEM Swap?

There are several ways to read messages from LEM Swap:

  • Individual messages
  • Abridged messages, a daily summary of messages
  • Digest mode, a daily collection of full messages
  • No email
  • Online

You can subscribe via email or online. Note that digest mode does not include the email addresses of posters to protect their privacy and to help prevent spam. If you want to be able to reply via email, you must use “email” (individual message) mode. The other option is to receive the digest and then log in to http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap, locate the message, and use the “reply to author” link.

Never reply to the group. LEM Swap is not a discussion list.

To subscribe via email, send an email to lemswap+subscribe@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to lemswap+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. You must register online if you wish to set your subscription to digest mode, abridged messages, or no email.

To subscribe online, go to http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap and click on Join this group. You do not need a Google/Gmail account to participate. If you don’t have a Gmail address or wish to use another address, click on the Sign up now link.

Although you will begin receiving messages from the group right away, Google Groups will not accept an email posting until you confirm your email address. Also, in an attempt to keep spammers out, the first messages from new members will be checked by a group manager before they are posted.

You will receive a confirmation email from Google Groups at your subscribed address. You must click on the link in this message to verify your email address. That will generate a second email from Google Groups, and it’s only after responding to the second message that you’ll be able to post to the group. Watch out – one or both of these may be marked as junk mail by your spam filter.

Use http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap to change your subscription mode, your subscribed address, or remove yourself from the group.

If you use an RSS reader, you can subscribe to the group’s RSS feed at http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml

How can I distinguish messages from LEM Swap from all the other email I get?

Messages from this group will include “lemswap” in their footer, and messages from the Swap Feedback group (see below) will include “swap-feedback” in their footer.

How should items be listed?

The subject line should make it clear whether you want to buy, sell, swap, or give away something – and what it is you’re offering or looking for. Please begin for sale subject lines with FS, want to buy with WTB, trades with SWAP, and use FREE for things you’re giving away. Follow this by a subject line that make it pretty clear what kind of thing(s) the posting is about.

Who oversees the LEM Swap List?

Dan Knight of Low End Mac manages LEM Swap, which was begun on September 3, 2000. Beverly Woods, Kyle Hansen, Derek Morton, Tim Gochnour, and Len Gerstel are the group “nannies” (group managers).

How does Google Groups work?

Anyone who has access to Internet email may subscribe to LEM Swap List using the subscription address lemswap+subscribe@googlegroups.com to join the group. Members will receive a copy of every message others have sent to the posting address, lemswap@googlegroups.com. If you wish to reply to the group or post a new message to the group, send email to lemswap@googlegroups.com.

This group is set up so selecting “Reply” in your emailer will send a message to the original sender – this is the opposite of our other lists. If you wish to respond to the group, be sure to address your message to lemswap@googlegroups.com – but remember that this is not a discussion group. There should be no need to copy messages to both the author and the group, since the author is a member of the group.

How do I reply to the sender instead of to the group when using the Google Groups interface?

There are two ways to do this. If you select “Reply with quote”, you will have the option of selecting the group or the original poster as the recipient. The second option is to click on “show options” below the date of the message. Here you will see “Reply to author” as one of your options.

How do I know if it’s okay to post an item on the to the entire group.?

As it says at the top of the page, “LEM Swap is Low End Mac’s Google Group for buying and selling Mac OS computers and related goods. iPhones and iPods are considered related goods, but iPod and iPhone accessories are not. This is a Mac swap list, not an iPhone or iPod one. PCs are expressly forbidden even if they are running OS X, as are most *nix boxen except for NeXT hardware. Palms and PDAs are acceptable as long as they can be used with Macs. Vintage Apple hardware (Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, and Newton) is allowed.”

Computers designed to run the Mac OS, printers and modems that work with Macs, networking equipment (hubs, cable or DSL modems, base stations, etc.), mice and keyboards, Mac-compatible webcams, flash drives, and hard drives are just some of the things that fit into the “Mac and Mac-related” category.

Windows PCs and software, cell phones, consumer electronics, and digital cameras are examples of things that do not qualify as Mac-related goods. (Rule of thumb: If it works just fine without a computer, like a digital camera or cell phone, it’s not a peripheral and thus is not allowed. If it’s dependent on a computer, such as a printer or synching your PDA, it’s a peripheral and is allowed.)

Even though Intel-based Macs can run Windows, because of licensing issues (OEM vs. retail copies, Genuine Advantage problems, limits on how many times or on how many machines it can be installed, and licenses that prohibit use of some versions in a virtualized environment), we do not allow the sale of Windows.

What rules do you have about posting items for sale?

  • Sellers and those looking for items should always mention their geographic location (city and state/province/country) and postal code so buyers know where items will be shipped from or to – or where you are if items are for local pickup only.
  • This is not a dealer list. LEM Swap List exists for private sale and purchase of goods. Any dealer attempting to sell anything besides personal merchandise on the list will be banned.
  • Don’t list items you’re auctioning on eBay or elsewhere. This group is for private buying and selling, not for promoting auctions.
  • You must post an asking price. This is not an auction site, and we don’t allow “best offer” postings. If you think your price may be a bit high, “or best offer” (OBO) is allowed. Even when that’s not stated, potential buyers should feel free to contact the seller indicating their interest if the item doesn’t sell at the asking price.
  • When selling a computer, it should include an installed version of the Mac OS unless otherwise stated. If the installed OS is not the one that originally shipped with that computer or a free update to that version, the original disks for the version installed should accompany the computer.
  • Likewise, bundled software (such as AppleWorks) that originally came with the computer should also be installed and, when possible, original install disks included as well.
  • Trafficking in wares and pirated software is illegal, violates the rules of the group, and disrespects the buyer. Only original copies of software may be sold on this list. This also applies to software “left on” hard drives or installed on computers. Original software disks (not copies) must be included with the sale, along with manuals, serial numbers, etc.
  • Likewise, trafficking in non-Apple Intel hardware with any version of Mac OS X installed is prohibited, as OS X is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. While Apple doesn’t prevent you from hacking OS X onto a PC for your own use, selling such a computer, even if not for profit, is not legal.
  • We allow a maximum of 4 postings per day from any member of the group.
  • Once you have posted an item for sale, please wait one week before reposting it to the group.
  • If you have multiple related items for sale, please list them in a single posting rather than a whole bunch of separate ones.
  • Unless you are getting a lot of replies expressing interest in something you’ve already sold, please don’t post “I sold it” messages to the group.

When buying and selling

  • Please put a blank line between paragraphs and between items in your posting.
  • All correspondence regarding services or products should be conducted privately, not on the list.
  • Sellers are asked to list their eBay and HeatWare IDs when posting items for sale. Those posting items for sale or seeking items must include name (first and last) and location (city, state or province, country if outside US, and postal code).
  • Buyers and sellers are required to provide full contact information to each other privately. This includes full mailing address and phone number.
  • You may want to check feedback on HeatWare http://heatware.elitehardware.com, eBay http://www.ebay.com, and the Mac Rap Sheet http://mac-rapsheet.blogspot.com before concluding a transaction.
  • Please join the Swap Feedback group and post your feedback on completed transactions there. Do not post feedback here – this is not a discussion list.
  • LEM-Swap has no mechanism for resolving disputes. We suggest SquareTrade http://www.squaretrade.com for dispute resolution.
  • Neither the publisher nor the group managers makes any claim regarding services or products offered by members of the group.

Tracking and Insurance

To protect the buyer, all sales over $100 in value (US, or equivalent in local currency) must be shipped insured if this is at all possible.

Whenever possible, sales over US$25 (or equivalent) should be shipped with tracking numbers so both the buyer and seller can track the shipment.

The Swap Feedback List

We have created a separate group specifically for feedback on Swap List transactions. We ask that you provide feedback – positive or negative – on each transaction. This will help others identify buyers and sellers who do not operate in good faith. As with LEM Swap, this is an unmoderated closed group.

Google Groups
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You can join the Swap Feedback group online at http://groups.google.com/group/swap-feedback or emailing swap-feedback+subscribe@googlegroups.com. This is a separate group that requires a separate subscription. It works like the Swap List except that replies go to the group, not the original poster.

If you use an RSS reader, you can subscribe to the group’s RSS feed at http://groups.google.com/group/swap-feedback/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml

What is netiquette?

There are informal rules of the Internet (“netiquette”) to help people use proper etiquette when communicating online. For more on group netiquette, click here.

Because LEM Swap is for buying and selling, do not use it to promote sales through auction sites.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Who is in the group?

That would be telling.

Because Google Groups requires an email address but not a name, I may not have names of all members of the group. We currently have over over 2,600 members, and people don’t need to join the group to read postings online.

How can I get a copy of the email addresses for members?

You can’t. To communicate with the group, send messages to the posting address lemswap@googlegroups.com. We have deliberately blocked access to the subscriber list to prevent addresses from being harvested by spammers.

What topics may be discussed?

LEM-Swap is not a discussion list; it is a forum for buying and selling. Except in rare cases, your reply should be directed to the person making a posting to the group, not to the group itself.

LEM Swap List is mostly an unmoderated closed group. Unmoderated means messages are sent to the group without prior knowledge of the group owner or managers; closed means only members may post. The group is closed to help fight spam, and first postings from new members must be reviewed and approved by a group manager before they are sent to the group, a step made necessary by spammers.

Group managers are authorized to remove the following types of messages from the group archive: spam, test messages, unsubscribe postings, and items prohibited from the list. Content of each message is the responsibility of the person posting it.

Because the group is closed, you will only be able to post from a subscribed address.

What topics may not be discussed?

The list is short: LEM Swap is not a discussion group, so discussion is prohibited unless the List Mom initiates it.

What tone is expected in the discussion and who will facilitate this?

This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of “dumb” questions, and please don’t bait or snipe at each other.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Please report any major breach of netiquette to the list managers.

Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to the group?

Yes, it’s available at http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap.

What other Internet resources are available for buying and selling Macs?

There are several auction sites and used Mac dealers.

Keywords: #lemswap

Short link: http://goo.gl/HwIo2q

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