Mac Webmasters List

list begun 1998.02.15, moved to Google Groups 2006.09

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Welcome to Mac Webmasters, the forum for people who manage Mac-related web sites or use Macs to create and/or manage web sites. A few words before you go any further.

• Be sure the return address on your browser or email program is correct. All it takes is one tiny little typo and we can't get messages to you. If you do not receive a confirmation email, your subscription did not take.
• Several email providers have implemented anti-spam filters, some of which filter out messages from this list. I will contact your email provider after the first bounce, requesting they let future messages through. I will also cc: the message to you.
• The mail server is set to stop sending a message after trying for 24 hours, so if your email provider is down for more than 24 hours, you may miss some postings.

Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the list. If you wish to discuss the list rules, please join LEMlists, our 'meta-list' for discussing the lists and their rules.

Administrivia: These lists are currently served by maclaunch.com, which is a separate entity from Low End Mac. We do not own or manage their mail/list server; we only manage our own lists on their server. We have no control over "warning/bounce" messages sent by the maclaunch.com mail server. If you ignore them, they will not go away, and you may find yourself dropped from the list eventually.

If you reply to them, they should go away - but they may not. We have no idea why these messages are being generated; we have made maclaunch.com aware of the problem. That is all we can do. Note that the list server has been set to reject styled messages and email with attachments, so when responding to warning messages, be sure your response is a plain text email.

WARNING: Users are advised that Microsoft Outlook Express comes equipped with a junk email (spam) filter which, when turned on, may relegate legitimate emails, such as electronic greeting cards from family or friends to the junk mail folder, and dispose of them according to the user's preferences.

From Microsoft: Microsoft is aware that Outlook Express 5 Macintosh Edition's Junk Mail Filter may identify as suspicious some email messages that a user may want to read. Microsoft is working closely with industry experts to improve the Junk Mail Filter to help people better separate wanted and unwanted messages. For example, we recently learned that the subscription-based TidBITS newsletter was identified as suspicious. To assure that any wanted email, such as the TidBITS newsletter, is not marked by the Junk Mail Filter, please use any one of the following quick and easy solutions:

• Add the address of the mailing list to your Address Book
• Add the domain name of the Sender (e.g., tidbits.com) to the exception list in the Junk Mail filter
• Use the Mailing List Manager to create a Mailing List Rule for that Sender

How can I subscribe to PowerBooks?

There are several ways to receive The PowerBooks List:

• Individual messages
• Abridged messages, a daily summary of messages
• Digest mode, a daily collection of full messages
• No email

You can subscribe via email or online.

To subscribe via email, send an email to mac-webmasters-subscribe@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to mac-webmasters-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. You must register online if you wish to set your subscription to digest mode, abridged messages, or no email.

To subscribe online, go to http://groups.google.com/group/mac-webmasters and click on Join this group. You do not need a Google/Gmail account to participate. If you don't have a Gmail address or wish to use another address, click on the Sign up now link.

Although you will begin receiving messages from the list right away, Google Groups will not accept an email posting until you confirm your email address. Also, in an attempt to keep spam off the list, the first messages from new members will be checked by a list mananger before they are posted.

You will receive a confirmation email from Google Groups at your subscribed address. You must click on the link in this message to verify your email address. That will generate a second email from Google Groups, and it's only after responding to the second message that you'll be able to post to the list. Watch out - one or both of these may be marked a junk mail by your spam filter.

Use http://groups.google.com/group/mac-webmasters to change your subscription mode or remove yourself from the list.

To help prevent spammers from using the list, and to keep others from subscribing your address without your approval, you will receive a note from the list server asking you to confirm your subscription. Simply reply as instructed and your subscription will be active.

Please report any subscription problems to the list mom at .

How do I switch to digest or unsubscribe?

First, go to the list's Google Groups page and log in with your subscribed email address and password. (If you subscribed via email, you will have to generate a password.)

Click on "Unsubscribe or change membership" in the yellow bar above the postings. On the next page you'll be able to select email (single messages), digest email (multiple messages combined into one email), abridged email (abridged digest), or no email. There's also an unsubscribe button for removing yourself from the list.

You can also change your nickname on this page.

How do I change my nickname in Google Groups?

Google's default behavior is to use your email address as your nickname when you join a list. We've brought this to Google's attention, but if your nickname is also your email address, we strongly suggest you change it.

Anyhow, if you want to change your nickname (whether it's your email address or not), it's a pretty simple process.

1. Log into Google Groups.
2. In the My Groups window, click the "Manage my subscriptions" link.
3. On the My Subscriptions page, you can easily change the nickname for all the lists you're subscribed to.

What about anti-spam services?

We take whatever steps we can to keep spam off our lists, but short of moderating every message on every list, we can't prevent some from occasionally reaching the list. Whatever filtering you do with your email software and your email service is up to you.

That said, we take a dim view of anti-spam services such as Spam Arrest and Cashette that require the sender of a message to respond to a message from the anti-spam service (a "challenge and response" system) before allowing the recipient to receive the posting. Such a service inconveniences anyone who posts to the list and is unnecessary.

These are all closed lists, so there should be virtually no spam. Only those who have requested a subscription and confirmed their subscription are allowed to post. Please don't inconvenience our members by asking them to jump through hoops to keep your mailbox spam free.

Any subscriber using this kind of anti-spam service for list messages will receive one warning and be temporarily blocked from posting to the list. If the situation is not resolved quickly, the subscriber will be banned. The burden should be on the spammers, not innocent list members.

Note that this applies specifically to list messages, not to individual correspondence with list members.

How can I distinguish messages from the PowerBooks List from all the other email I get?

Messages from this list will include "mac-webmasters" in their footer.

Who oversees Mac Webmasters?

Dan Knight of Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/ manages Webmasters, which was begun in February 15, 1998.

Is Mac Webmasters only for webmasters?

While anyone may subscribe, this list will be most helpful to webmasters who use the Macintosh.

How does an email list work?

Anyone who has access to internet email may subscribe to Mac Webmasters using the subscription address mac-webmasters-subscribe@googlegroups.com to join the list. Subscribers will receive a copy of every message sent to the posting address, mac-webmasters@googlegroups.com. If you wish to reply or post a new message everyone on the list, send email, either replying the message to which you are responding or sending a new one, to mac-webmasters@googlegroups.com.

The list is set up so selecting "Reply" to an individual message in your emailer will send a message to the entire list. (Replying to the digest will send your email to noreply@googlegroups.com, a black hole for email.) If you wish to respond individually to the sender of the message, be sure to address your message accordingly. There should be no need to copy messages to both the author and the list, since the author is a member of the list.

When replying, always ask yourself if your reply should go privately to the sender or to the entire list.

Do you have rules for replying to the list?

Yes, we do.

We ask that you only quote relevant portions of the original posting in your reply, and we recognize that the Google Groups online reply system may not allow that.

We also ask that you not use your email program's reply feature to create a new posting to the list. This is because Google Groups may see that your message is a reply based on data in the message header and add it to an existing thread. When starting a new discussion thread, be sure to compose a new email instead of replying to an unrelated message.

What is netiquette?

There are informal rules of the internet which are termed "netiquette" to help people use proper etiquette within this form of communication. For more on list netiquette, click here.

Who is on the list?

That would be telling.

Because the list software requires an email address but not a name, I may not have names of all subscribers on the list. We currently have over 40 subscriptions, and people don't need to subscribe to read the list online.

How can I get a copy of the email addresses on the list?

You can't. To communicate with the list, send messages to the posting address mac-webmasters@googlegroups.com. We have deliberately blocked access to the subscriber list to prevent addresses from being harvested by spammers.

What topics may be discussed?

Anything relating to your role as webmaster. Mac Webmasters is an unmoderated closed list. Unmoderated means messages are sent to the list without prior knowledge of the list mom; closed means only subscribers may post. (The list was closed to prevent spam.)

Because the list is closed, you will only be able to post from a subscribed address.

What topics may not be discussed?

The list is short:

• Never post a link for Apple Service Manuals. Apple has a policy of shutting down sites the post such links, and Apple has people on some of our lists, so posting such links contributes to the sites posting this information being shut down. Nobody wins when that happens.
• These are Apple lists - don't advocate PCs. Sure, they have their place in the world, but pushing PCs here is asking for trouble. Such posts usually fall under the categories of flaming or trolling. We don't want that here, so stick to Macs.

What tone is expected in the discussion and who will facilitate this?

This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of "dumb" questions, and please don't bait or snipe at each other.

The list is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the list requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the list mom and nannies will act in accordance with our Rules of List Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of subscribers.

Please report any major breach of netiquette to the .

Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to Mac Webmasters ?

Yes, Google Groups maintains a searchable archive of all their email lists at http://googlegroups.com/lists/.

What other Internet resources are available for Mac webmasters?

Mac Webmaster, a list for those who serve sites on a Mac. There is a separate page for resources. It is updated as resources are discovered.

The Mac Webmasters site, now part of MacKiDo, is another good resource.

I subscribed, but get no messages. What's up?

Google Groups can be set so that "no email" is the default option, and all of our lists were inadvertently set that way. We have since set them so subscribers will receive individual emails as the default. My apologies.

It's possible (but not easy) to subscribe with an incorrect email address. The list server checks all bounced messages to determine why they bounced. If the address is invalid, it is removed from the subscriber list. If the problem is temporary, like a full mailbox, the server temporarily suspends your subscription. If this results in still more bounces, the server will eventually remove the address.

If you are subscribing from a free email account, note that some of these services are very busy and messages may bounce. This can even happen with commercial services, and Apple's .mac seems to experience this frequently. If this persists, it could lead to your name being removed the list. We recommend you to use an ISP account for the list instead of a free email service.

We take a hard line against unsolicited commercial email. To prevent spam, the list is closed and certain domains are blocked by the mail server and the list server.

I sent a reply to the list, but I never received a copy.

Google Groups sometimes makes the assumption that you know what you've posted, so you don't need to receive a copy; there's no way we can change that if it happens. However, your posting will show up online and you will see it if you receive the list in digest form.

I subscribed, but I can't post.

Google Groups requires you to confirm and verify your subscription before you can post. And, like most email lists, their software may not me@recognize mail.domain.com and me@domain.com as being the same. Make sure the From: and Reply-to: address in your email client match the address you used to join the list.

I have had reports of people who are subscribed and unable to post. If this happens to you, please forward your message to so we can investigate. We're still learning how Google Groups works, and Google Groups remains in beta.

I sent a message, but it never appeared. Why?

There are several possible reasons a posting can bounce.

• You may not have confirmed your subscription yet. Until you do so, you are not officially on the list and thus unable to post.
• Your return address may not match the address you subscribed from (for instance, the server sees "yourname@mail.maclaunch.com" and "yourname@maclaunch.com" as different addresses). The list server uses your return (reply to) address to confirm that you are subscribed to the list and allowed to post.
• You may have sent email which contains an attachment, styled text, or something other than plain text.
• You may have inadvertently sent your message to the wrong address. Never use the "listname-requests" address.
• Your mail server may have appended something to your email which changes your return address so that it no longer matches the subscribed address. I've only seen that with Yahoo mail so far.

Do you have any policies about selling products or services on the list?

I've learned that some of the experts on any list gain their expertise professionally. For instance, I was the information systems manager for an 85 Mac network. For those who make a living selling equipment or services, we have the following guidelines.

1. List members may mention the availability of commercial services or products on the list, but no prices. (Individuals may list personal equipment with prices.)
2. All correspondence regarding services or products should be conducted privately, not on the list.
3. Neither the publisher nor the list mom makes any claim regarding services or products offered by members of the list.

To simplify things, we set up the Low End Mac Swap List as a place for list members to buy, sell, and trade Mac-related goods.

For the most part, items for sale should be listed on the Swap List, which has over 2,200 subscriptions. We make exceptions for the international lists (Australia, Canada, UK), the non-Mac lists (Apple II, Lisa, Newton), and items that would only be of interest to members of a specific list. Keep in mind that the swap list is generally the best place to list items for sale, since it has more subscribers than any of the other lists.

That said, the swap list is a very busy list, and we don't think anyone should have to subscribe just so they can sell a personal item or system, so we do allow posting of items for sale on all lists - but only when they are specifically related to that list. That means no posting Quadras for sale on the iMac list, for instance.

To avoid this list turning into a swapfest, we restrict subscribers to one such postings per calendar year

We discourage posting links to your eBay and other online auctions, and such postings are explicitly forbidden on the swap list. We also discourage links to other items available through online auctions unless they are unusual and of special interest to that list, such as the Piña tomes covering vintage Macs.

Do you block any specific domains?

We are firmly committed to the free exchange of information on our lists. Some mail servers censor incoming email - orvis.com in particular. We don't take preemptive action against subscribers using such mail servers, but we do reserve the right to unceremoniously unsubscribe them without advance notice when their content filters "quarantine" list messages.

If you receive a "quarantine" message, please forward it to the so we can deal with it. Thanks!

Dan Knight,

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