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Low End Mac's Unsupported OS X Group

A group about using Mac OS X on unsupported hardware

group begun 2001.08.30, moved to Google Groups 2006.09

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Unsupported OS X exists as a forum for those using (or attempting to use) Mac OS X on pre-G3 Power Macs and other PowerPC-based Mac OS computers, especially those using Ryan Rempel's XPostFacto 2.1 (formerly Unsupported UtilityX). This is not a general hardware group nor a general Mac OS X group - the specific focus is setting up and using Mac OS X and X-based applications on unsupported hardware.

The group may also delve into running Mac OS 9.2.x on unsupported hardware, since it ships with part of Mac OS X 10.1.x. However, discussion of 9.2.x should be limited to those machines than can also run OS X.

Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the group. If you wish to discuss group rules, please join LEMlists, our 'meta-group' for discussing our groups and their rules.

Administrivia: These lists are currently served by maclaunch.com, which is a separate entity from Low End Mac. We do not own or manage their mail/list server; we only manage our own lists on their server. We have no control over "warning/bounce" messages sent by the maclaunch.com mail server. If you ignore them, they will not go away, and you may find yourself dropped from the list eventually.

If you reply to them, they should go away - but they may not. We have no idea why these messages are being generated; we have made maclaunch.com aware of the problem. That is all we can do. Note that the list server has been set to reject styled messages and email with attachments, so when responding to warning messages, be sure your response is a plain text email.

WARNING: Users are advised that Microsoft Outlook Express comes equipped with a junk email (spam) filter which, when turned on, may relegate legitimate emails, such as electronic greeting cards from family or friends to the junk mail folder, and dispose of them according to the user's preferences.

From Microsoft: Microsoft is aware that Outlook Express 5 Macintosh Edition's Junk Mail Filter may identify as suspicious some email messages that a user may want to read. Microsoft is working closely with industry experts to improve the Junk Mail Filter to help people better separate wanted and unwanted messages. For example, we recently learned that the subscription-based TidBITS newsletter was identified as suspicious. To assure that any wanted email, such as the TidBITS newsletter, is not marked by the Junk Mail Filter, please use any one of the following quick and easy solutions:

  • Add the address of the mailing list to your Address Book
  • Add the domain name of the Sender (e.g., tidbits.com) to the exception list in the Junk Mail filter
  • Use the Mailing List Manager to create a Mailing List Rule for that Sender

How can I subscribe to Unsupported OS X?

There are several ways to read messages from Unsupported OS X:

  • Individual messages
  • Abridged messages, a daily summary of messages
  • Digest mode, a daily collection of full messages
  • No email
  • Online

You can subscribe via email or online.

To subscribe via email, send an email to unsupported-os-x+subscribe@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to unsupported-os-x+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. You must register online if you wish to set your subscription to digest mode, abridged messages, or no email.

To subscribe online, go to http://groups.google.com/group/unsupported-os-x and click on Join this group. You do not need a Google/Gmail account to participate. If you don't have a Gmail address or wish to use another address, click on the Sign up now link.

Although you will begin receiving messages from the group right away, Google Groups will not accept an email posting until you confirm your email address. Also, in an attempt to keep spammers out, the first messages from new members will be checked by a group manager before they are posted.

You will receive a confirmation email from Google Groups at your subscribed address. You must click on the link in this message to verify your email address. That will generate a second email from Google Groups, and it's only after responding to the second message that you'll be able to post to the group. Watch out - one or both of these may be marked as junk mail by your spam filter.

Use http://groups.google.com/group/unsupported-os-x to change your subscription mode or remove yourself from the group.

To help prevent spammers from using the to the entire group, and to keep others from subscribing your address without your approval, you will receive an email from the Google Groups server asking you to confirm your subscription. Simply reply as instructed and your subscription will be active.

Please report any subscription problems to the group owner at .

Online Subscription Management

Go to http://groups.google.com/ and select "Sign in". Enter your subscribed email address and password. You may also want to check "Stay signed in".

Google Groups will display a list of all groups that this email address is subscribed to. Click on "Manage my memberships" - this is where you can change your nickname, your subscribed email address, and your subscription type (how you receive messages from the group).

What about anti-spam services?

We take whatever steps we can to keep spam off our lists, but short of moderating every message on every to the entire group, we can't prevent some from occasionally reaching the list. Whatever filtering you do with your email software and your email service is up to you.

That said, we take a dim view of anti-spam services such as Spam Arrest and Cashette that require the sender of a message to respond to a message from the anti-spam service (a "challenge and response" system) before allowing the recipient to receive the posting. Such a service inconveniences anyone who posts to the group and is unnecessary.

These are all closed lists, so there should be virtually no spam. Only those who have requested a subscription and confirmed their subscription are allowed to post. Please don't inconvenience our members by asking them to jump through hoops to keep your mailbox spam free.

Any subscriber using this kind of anti-spam service for group messages will receive one warning and be temporarily blocked from posting to the list. If the situation is not resolved quickly, the subscriber will be banned. The burden should be on the spammers, not innocent group members.

Note that this applies specifically to messages sent to the group, not to individual correspondence with group members.

What's a digest? Do I want it?

If you find email from the group overwhelming or fear it may stuff your mailbox, you can switch to digest mode by sending an email to the address listed in the footer of each message.

In digest mode, you will receive all messages in the order they reach the Google Groups server.

Instructions for switching to digest mode are in the footer of each message. This changes your subscription setting. Do not unsubscribe or you will receive neither single messages nor the digest.

How can I get off Unsupported OS X?

Instructions for unsubscribing are in the footer of each posting. If those instructions don't work, contact .

Please report any subscription problems to the group owner at .

What other commands are available?

Substitute unsupported-os-x for listname in the following:

  • to subscribe, send email to <listname-subscribe@mail.maclaunch.com> or <listname-on@mail.maclaunch.com>
  • to subscribe in digest mode or switch to digest mode, send email to <listname-digest@mail.maclaunch.com>
  • to receive individual messages in feed mode send email to <listname-feed@mail.maclaunch.com>
  • to be removed from the list (unsubscribe), send email to <listname-unsubscribe@mail.maclaunch.com> or <listname-off@mail.maclaunch.com>

You cannot change your subscribed address. When switching to a new email address, you need to subscribe from the new address, confirm that subscription, and then unsubscribe from the old address. If you have problems with any part of this, please contact and be sure to mention which list(s) you are changing addresses on.

Please do not attempt to use vacation mode, as there is a glitch that prevents users from resuming their subscription after using the vacation setting. That's why we don't document use of the vacation setting.

Why don't the command addresses work properly?

Short answer: They do - unless you're using America Online or not sending plain text email. For reasons known only to AOL, their email client reads a link like <mailto:listmom@lowendmac.com> and pastes everything between the "<" and the ">" into the address field. Of course it doesn't work, despite the fact this is an industry standard.

Sorry, AOL users, you'll just have to remove the "mailto:" from the address manually since America Online refuses to follow convention.

It's far better to manage your subscription online.

Who sponsors Unsupported OS X?

Dan Knight of Low End Mac manages Unsupported OS X, which was begun on 2001.08.30. Paul Stamsen (pjspop) is assistant group manager.

Is Unsupported OS X only for people running Mac OS X on unsupported hardware?

While anyone may join, this group will be most helpful to those using OS X on unsupported hardware.

How does Google Groups work?

Anyone who has access to Internet email may subscribe to Unsupported OS X using the subscription address unsupported-os-x+subscribe@googlegroups.com to join the group. Members can receive an email copy of every message sent to the posting address, unsupported-os-x@googlegroups.com. If you wish to reply or post a new message everyone to the group, send email, either replying the message to which you are responding or sending a new one, to unsupported-os-x@googlegroups.com.

The group is set up so selecting "Reply" to an individual message in your emailer will send a message to the entire group. (Replying to the digest will send your email to noreply@googlegroups.com, a black hole for email.) If you wish to respond individually to the sender of the message, be sure to address your message accordingly. There should be no need to copy messages to both the author and the group, since the author is a member of the group.

When replying, always ask yourself if your reply should go privately to the sender or to the entire group.

Do you have rules for replying to the group?

Yes, we do.

Please post your messages in English, as Low End Mac and these groups serve a primarily English-speaking audience. Postings in other languages will be rejected by the group managers.

We ask that you only quote relevant portions of the original posting in your reply, and we recognize that the Google Groups online reply system may not allow that.

We also ask that you not use your email program's reply feature to begin a new discussion. This is because Google Groups may see that your message as a reply based on data in the message header and add it to an existing thread. When starting a new discussion thread, be sure to compose a new email instead of replying to an unrelated message.

What is netiquette?

There are informal rules of the Internet which are termed "netiquette" to help people use proper etiquette within this form of communication. For more on online etiquette, click here.

Who is in the group?

That would be telling.

Because Google Groups requires an email address but not a name, I may not have names of all members of the group. We currently have over 110 members, and people don't need to join the group to read postings online.

How can I get a copy of the email addresses for members?

You can't. To communicate with the group, send messages to the posting address unsupported-os-x@googlegroups.com. We have deliberately blocked access to the subscriber list to prevent addresses from being harvested by spammers.

What topics may be discussed?

Anything relating to setting up and using OS X on unsupported hardware. Unsupported OS X is mostly an unmoderated closed group. Unmoderated means messages are sent to the group without prior knowledge of the group owner or managers; closed means only members may post. The group is closed to help fight spam, and first postings from new members must be reviewed and approved by a group manager before they are sent to the group, a step made necessary by spammers.

What topics may not be discussed?

The list is short:

  • Never post a link for Apple Service Manuals. Apple has a policy of shutting down sites the post such links, and Apple has people on some of our lists, so posting such links contributes to the sites posting this information being shut down. Nobody wins when that happens.
  • These are Apple lists - don't advocate PCs. Sure, they have their place in the world, but pushing PCs here is asking for trouble. Such posts usually fall under the categories of flaming or trolling. We don't want that here, so stick to Macs.

What tone is expected in the discussion and who will facilitate this?

This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of "dumb" questions, and please don't bait or snipe at each other.

As these groups serve members of all ages and persuasions, potentially offensive, inflammatory, or controversial nicknames, email addresses, domain names, and signatures are not welcome and may lead to your membership being moderated, suspended, or cancelled.

The group is expected to handle things responsibly, and members are expected to behave in such a way that the group requires minimal administrative intervention. When action is required, the group owner and managers will act in accordance with our Rules for Group Management. This page also defines terms (ban, block, flame, troll, etc.) and lists the responsibilities of members.

Please report any major breach of netiquette to the .

Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to Unsupported OS X?

Yes, Google Groups maintains a searchable archive at http://groups.google.com/group/unsupported-os-x .

What other Internet resources are available for users of Mac OS X?

That's outside my area of expertise - but if you'd like to drop me a note, I'll be happy to add your favorites.

I subscribed, but get no messages. What's up?

Google Groups can be set so that "no email" is the default option, and all of our lists were inadvertently set that way. We have since set them so subscribers will receive individual emails as the default. My apologies.

It's possible (but not easy) to subscribe with an incorrect email address. The list server checks all bounced messages to determine why they bounced. If the address is invalid, it is removed from the subscriber list. If the problem is temporary, like a full mailbox, the server temporarily suspends your subscription. If this results in still more bounces, the server will eventually remove the address.

If you are subscribing from a free email account, note that some of these services are very busy and messages may bounce. This can even happen with commercial services, and Apple's .mac seems to experience this frequently. If this persists, it could lead to your name being removed the list. We recommend you to use an ISP account for the list instead of a free email service.

We take a hard line against unsolicited commercial email. To prevent spam, the list is closed and certain domains are blocked by the mail server and the list server.

I sent a reply to the list, but I never received a copy.

Google Groups sometimes makes the assumption that you know what you've posted, so you don't need to receive a copy; there's no way we can change that if it happens. However, your posting will show up online and you will see it if you receive the list in digest form.

I subscribed, but I can't post.

Google Groups requires you to confirm and verify your subscription before you can post. And, like most email lists, their software may not me@recognize mail.domain.com and me@domain.com as being the same. Make sure the From: and Reply-to: address in your email client match the address you used to join the list.

I have had reports of people who are subscribed and unable to post. If this happens to you, please forward your message to so we can investigate. We're still learning how Google Groups works, and Google Groups remains in beta.

I sent a message, but it never appeared. Why?

There are several possible reasons a posting can bounce.

  • You may not have confirmed your subscription yet. Until you do so, you are not officially on the list and thus unable to post.
  • Your return address may not match the address you subscribed from (for instance, the server sees "yourname@mail.maclaunch.com" and "yourname@maclaunch.com" as different addresses). The list server uses your return (reply to) address to confirm that you are subscribed to the list and allowed to post.
  • You may have sent email which contains an attachment, styled text, or something other than plain text.
  • You may have inadvertently sent your message to the wrong address. Never use the "listname-requests" address.
  • Your mail server may have appended something to your email which changes your return address so that it no longer matches the subscribed address. I've only seen that with Yahoo mail so far.

Do you have any policies about selling products or services on the list?

I've learned that some of the experts on any list gain their expertise professionally. For instance, I was the information systems manager for an 85 Mac network. For those who make a living selling equipment or services, we have the following guidelines.

  1. List members may mention the availability of commercial services or products on the list, but no prices. (Individuals may list personal equipment with prices.)
  2. All correspondence regarding services or products should be conducted privately, not on the list.
  3. Neither the publisher nor the list mom makes any claim regarding services or products offered by members of the list.

To simplify things, we set up the Low End Mac Swap List as a place for list members to buy, sell, and trade Mac-related goods.

For the most part, items for sale should be listed on the Swap List, which has over 2,200 subscriptions. We make exceptions for the international lists (Australia, Canada, UK), the non-Mac lists (Apple II, Lisa, Newton), and items that would only be of interest to members of a specific list. Keep in mind that the swap list is generally the best place to list items for sale, since it has more subscribers than any of the other lists.

That said, the swap list is a very busy list, and we don't think anyone should have to subscribe just so they can sell a personal item or system, so we do allow posting of items for sale on all lists - but only when they are specifically related to that list. That means no posting Quadras for sale on the iMac list, for instance.

To avoid this list turning into a swapfest, we restrict subscribers to one such postings per calendar year

We discourage posting links to your eBay and other online auctions, and such postings are explicitly forbidden on the swap list. We also discourage links to other items available through online auctions unless they are unusual and of special interest to that list, such as the Piña tomes covering vintage Macs.

Do you block any specific domains?

We are firmly committed to the free exchange of information on our lists. Some mail servers censor incoming email - orvis.com in particular. We don't take preemptive action against subscribers using such mail servers, but we do reserve the right to unceremoniously unsubscribe them without advance notice when their content filters "quarantine" list messages.

If you receive a "quarantine" message, please forward it to the so we can deal with it. Thanks!

Dan Knight,

How to Email the Group Owner

Please email me at Gmail:

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