A general discussion list for Mac
usersupdated July 30, 2000
MacToMac is a forum for users of Apple Macintosh
and other Mac OS computers. Unlike most other Mac lists,
MacToMac has become the place for Mac owners to discuss
pretty much anything (religion, politics, economics, gas
prices, beer, cars, the environment, etc.) except the
Macintosh. MacToMac tends to be a pretty busy list with lots
of different conversations. It's your dime - but please
- WARNING: Users are advised that Microsoft Outlook
Express comes equipped with a junk email (spam)
filter which, when turned on, may relegate legitimate
emails, such as electronic greeting cards from family or
friends to the junk mail folder, and dispose of them
according to the user's preferences.
- Microsoft is aware that Outlook Express 5 Macintosh
Edition's Junk Mail Filter may identify as suspicious
some email messages that a user may want to read.
Microsoft is working closely with industry experts to
improve the Junk Mail Filter to help people better
separate wanted and unwanted messages. For example, we
recently learned that the subscription-based TidBITS
newsletter was identified as suspicious. To assure that
any wanted email, such as the TidBITS newsletter, is not
marked by the Junk Mail Filter, please use any one of the
following quick and easy solutions:
- Add the address of the mailing list to your
- Add the domain name of the Sender (e.g.,
tidbits.com) to the exception list in the Junk Mail
- Use the Mailing List Manager to create a Mailing
List Rule for that Sender
How can I subscribe to MacToMac?
There are two ways to receive MacToMac: as individual
email messages or in digest mode. In digest mode, messages
are collected by the list server and sent as part of one
larger message once per day. This is less immediate than
message mode, but also greatly reduces mailbox clutter.
Please be sure the return address is correct before
subscribing - the list server will use your return address
as your subscription address.
To help prevent spammers from using the list, and to keep
others from subscribing your address without your approval,
you will receive a note from the list server asking you to
confirm your subscription. Simply reply as instructed
and your subscription will be active.
Please report any subscription problems to the list mom,
What's a digest? Do I want it?
MacToMac normally generates quite a number of messages
per day. If you would rather get a whole day's messages in a
few large emails instead of a lot of individual ones, you
can switch to digest mode by sending an email to the address
listed in the footer of each message.
In digest mode, you will receive all messages daily,
bundled in the order they reached the list server.
How can I get off MacToMac?
Instructions for unsubscribing are in the footer of each
posting. If those instructions don't work, contact Andrew
Please report any subscription problems to the list mom
at Andrew Michael
What other commands are available?
Substitute MacToMac for listname in the
- to subscribe, send email to
- to subscribe in digest mode or switch to digest mode,
send email to
- to receive individual messages in feed mode send
email to <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- to be removed from the list (unsubscribe), send email
to <email@example.com> or
- to switch to null (vacation) mode, send email to
You cannot change your subscribed address. When switching
to a new email address, you need to subscribe from the new
address, confirm that subscription, and unsubscribe from the
Who sponsors MacToMac?
Dan Knight of Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/
created MacToMac, which was begun on May 10, 1999. The list
was set free on July 20, 2000, and is now managed by
Is MacToMac only for Mac users?
While anyone may subscribe, this list is especially those
How does an email list work?
Anyone who has access to internet email may subscribe to
MacInSchool using the subscription address
to join the list. Subscribers will receive a copy of every
message sent to the posting address, MacToMac@mail.maclaunch.com.
If you wish to reply or post a new message everyone on the
list, send email, either replying the message to which you
are responding or sending a new one, to MacToMac@mail.maclaunch.com.
The list is set up so selecting "Reply" in your emailer
will send a message to the entire list. If you wish to
respond individually to the sender of the message, be sure
to address your message accordingly. There should be no need
to copy messages to both the author and the list, since the
author is a member of the list.
What is netiquette?
There are informal rules of the internet which are termed
"netiquette" to help people use proper etiquette within this
form of communication. For more on list netiquette,
click here, then use the back
button on your browser to return to this page.
Who is on the list?
That would be telling.
Because the list software requires an email address but
not a name, I may not have names of all subscribers on the
list. We currently have 75 subscribers.
How can I get a copy of the email addresses on the
You can't. To communicate with the list, send messages to
the posting address MacToMac@mail.maclaunch.com.
We have deliberately blocked any access to the subscriber
list to prevent it from being harvested by spammers.
What topics may be discussed?
Anything relating to Macs, but especially general issues
that don't really fit the focus of the hardware-based lists
(Vintage Macs, Quadlist, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, etc.).
MacToMac is an unmoderated closed list. Unmoderated
means messages are sent to the list without prior knowledge
of the list mom; closed means only subscribers may
post. (The list was closed to prevent spam.)
Because the list is closed, you will only be able to post
from a subscribed address.
What tone is expected in the discussion and who will
This has become a kind and helpful community. Since Mac
users range from beginners to gurus, please be tolerant of
Please report any major breach of netiquette to the list
mom, Andrew Michael
Is there an accessible archive of messages sent to
Yes, MacLaunch/MacLists maintains a searchable archive of
all their email lists at http://mail.maclaunch.com/lists/.
Do you have any policies about selling products or
services on the list?
Some of the experts on any list gain their expertise
professionally. For those who make a living selling
equipment or services, we have the following guidelines.
- List members may mention the availability of
commercial services or products on the list, but no
prices. (Individuals may list personal equipment with
- All correspondence regarding services or products
should be conducted privately, not on the list.
- Neither the publisher nor the list mom makes any
claim regarding services or products offered by members
of the list.
What about the weekly email swap meet?
Every Monday the list is open to members listing their
surplus Macintosh and Mac related hardware. It is
recommended that sellers outside the U.S. specify their
location. Please be sure to reply directly to the individual
selling the item, not to the list.
I subscribed, but get no messages. What's up?
Google Groups can be set so that "no email" is the default
option, and all of our lists were inadvertently set that way. We
have since set them so subscribers will receive individual emails
as the default. My apologies.
It's possible (but not easy) to subscribe with an incorrect
email address. The list server checks all bounced messages to
determine why they bounced. If the address is invalid, it is
removed from the subscriber list. If the problem is temporary, like
a full mailbox, the server temporarily suspends your subscription.
If this results in still more bounces, the server will eventually
remove the address.
If you are subscribing from a free email account, note that some
of these services are very busy and messages may bounce. This can
even happen with commercial services, and Apple's .mac seems to
experience this frequently. If this persists, it could lead to your
name being removed the list. We recommend you to use an ISP account
for the list instead of a free email service.
We take a hard line against unsolicited commercial email. To
prevent spam, the list is closed and certain domains are blocked by
the mail server and the list server.
I sent a reply to the list, but I never received a copy.
Google Groups sometimes makes the assumption that you know what you've
posted, so you don't need to receive a copy; there's no way we
can change that if it happens. However, your posting will show up online
and you will see it if you receive the list in digest form.
I subscribed, but I can't post.
Google Groups requires you to confirm and verify your
subscription before you can post. And, like most email lists, their
software may not me@recognize mail.domain.com and firstname.lastname@example.org as
being the same. Make sure the From: and Reply-to: address in your
email client match the address you used to join the list.
I have had reports of people who are subscribed and unable to
post. If this happens to you, please forward your message to
so we can investigate. We're
still learning how Google Groups works, and Google Groups remains
I sent a message, but it never appeared. Why?
There are several possible reasons a posting can bounce.
- You may not have confirmed your subscription yet. Until you do
so, you are not officially on the list and thus unable to
- Your return address may not match the address you subscribed
from (for instance, the server sees "email@example.com"
and "firstname.lastname@example.org" as different addresses). The list
server uses your return (reply to) address to confirm that you are
subscribed to the list and allowed to post.
- You may have sent email which contains an attachment, styled
text, or something other than plain text.
- You may have inadvertently sent your message to the wrong
address. Never use the "listname-requests" address.
- Your mail server may have appended something to your email
which changes your return address so that it no longer matches the
subscribed address. I've only seen that with Yahoo mail so
Do you have any policies about selling products or services on
I've learned that some of the experts on any list gain their
expertise professionally. For instance, I was the information
systems manager for an 85 Mac network. For those who make a living
selling equipment or services, we have the following
- List members may mention the availability of commercial
services or products on the list, but no prices. (Individuals may
list personal equipment with prices.)
- All correspondence regarding services or products should be
conducted privately, not on the list.
- Neither the publisher nor the list mom makes any claim
regarding services or products offered by members of the list.
To simplify things, we set up the Low End
Mac Swap List as a place for list members to buy, sell, and
trade Mac-related goods.
For the most part, items for sale should be listed on the Swap
List, which has over 2,200 subscriptions. We make exceptions for the
international lists (Australia, Canada, UK), the non-Mac lists
(Apple II, Lisa, Newton), and items that would only be of interest
to members of a specific list. Keep in mind that the swap list is
generally the best place to list items for sale, since it has more
subscribers than any of the other lists.
That said, the swap list is a very busy list, and we don't think
anyone should have to subscribe just so they can sell a personal
item or system, so we do allow posting of items for sale on all
lists - but only when they are specifically related to that list.
That means no posting Quadras for sale on the iMac list, for
- To avoid this list turning into a swapfest, we restrict
subscribers to one such postings per calendar year
We discourage posting links to your eBay and other
online auctions, and such postings are explicitly forbidden
on the swap list. We also discourage links to other items available
through online auctions unless they are unusual and of special
interest to that list, such as the Piña tomes covering
Do you block any specific domains?
We are firmly committed to the free exchange of information on
our lists. Some mail servers censor incoming email - orvis.com in
particular. We don't take preemptive action against subscribers
using such mail servers, but we do reserve the right to
unceremoniously unsubscribe them without advance notice when their
content filters "quarantine" list messages.
If you receive a "quarantine" message, please forward it to
so we can deal with it.